Meno 8

I ended Meno 7 noticing that ‘At Meno 84e-c Socrates appropriated the simile of ‘torpedoing’, narka=|n, 'as an expression of an important stage of recollection, the stage of questioning, which ends with the recognition of one’s not knowing on the part of those questioned by Socrates.’

The last exchange between Socrates and Meno in Meno 7 was the following:

Socrates: Then the torpedo’s shock was of advantage to him?

Meno: I think so.

Socrates asks Meno: Now you should note (Ske/yai dh/) how, as a result of this perplexity, he will go on and discover something by joint inquiry with me (e0k tau/thj th=j a0pori/aj o3 ti kai\ a0neurh/sei zhtw~n met’ e0mou=), while I merely ask questions (ou0de\n a0ll’ h2 e0rwtw~ntoj e0mou=) and do not teach him (kai\ ou0 dida/skontoj); and be on the watch to see (fu/latte de/) if at any point you find me teaching him (a1n pou eu3rh|j me dida/skonta) or expounding to him (h2 diecio/nta au0tw~|), instead of questioning him on his opinions (a0lla\ mh\ ta\j tou/tou do/caj a0nerwtw~nta).

            [Socrates turns to the boy] For tell me (Le/ge ga\r moi), you (su/): don’t we have here this [Socrates is pointing: tou=to] space of four feet (ou0 to\ me\n tetra/poun tou=to h9mi=n e0sti\ xwri/on;)? You understand (manqa/neij;)?

Boy: Yes (E!gwge).

Socrates asks the boy: And another [space] (E3teron de/) to it (au0tw~|) we add (prosqei=men a1n) this (touti/) [Socrates points] equal to it (i1son;)?

Boy: Yes (Nai/).

Socrates: And a third (Kai\ tri/ton) this (to/de [Socrates points to the third square]) equal (i1son) to both (e9kate/rw|) of these (tou/twn [Socrates points where to put the third square]).

Boy: Yes (Nai/).

Socrates: Now shall we fill up (Ou0kou=n prosanaplhrwsai/meq’ a1n), the one in the corner (to\ e0n th=| gwni/a|), this (to/de; [Socrates points to the remaining empty space, in the corner])?

Boy: By all means (Pa/nu ge).

Socrates: So here we must have four equal spaces (A1llo ti ou]n ge/noit’ a2n te/ttara i1sa xwri/a), these (ta/de [Sokrates points to the four squares, which form one big square])?

Boy: Yes (Nai/).

Socrates: Well now (Ti/ oun];) the whole (to\ o3lon), this (to/de [Socrates points to the whole square]), how many times larger (posapla/sion) than this (tou=de [Socrates points to one of the four small squares]) it is becoming (gi/gnetai;)?

Boy: Four times (Tetrapla/sion).

Socrates: But it was to have been only twice (E!dei de\ dipla/sion h9mi=n gene/sqai), or don’t you remember (h2 ou0 me/mnhsai;)?

Boy: To be sure (Pa/nu ge).

Socrates: And is this line (Ou0kou=n e0stin au3th grammh/ [Socrates draws the line), drawn from corner to corner (e0k gwni/aj ei0j gwni/an teinou=sa), cutting in two each of these spaces (te/mnousa di/xa e3kaston tou/twn tw~n xwri/wn; [Socrates points to the four small squares that form the big square of sixteen square feet; through each of these he draws a dividing line])?

Boy: Yes (Nai/).

Socrates: And have we here four equal lines (Ou0kou=n te/ttarej gi/gnontai grammai\ i1sai [Socrates draws the four lines]) containing (perie/xousai) this (touti/) space (to\ xwri/on;)?

Boy: We have (Gi/gnontai ga/r).

Socrates: Now consider (Sko/pei dh/), how large this space is (phli/kon ti/ e0sti tou=to to xwri/on)?

Boy: I do not understand (Ou0 manqa/nw).

Socrates: These being four (Ou0xi\ ttta/rwn o1ntwn tou/twn) half of each (h3misu e9ka/stou) each line (e9ka/sth h9 grammh/) cut off inside (a0pote/tmhken e0nto/j); or not (h2 ou1;)?

Boy: Yes (Nai/).

Socrates: And how many (Po/sa ou]n thlikau=ta [with thlikau=ta Socrates points at halves of the small, four-foot spaces]) are inside this (e0n tou/tw| e1nesti; [with e0n tou/tw| “in this” Socrates points at the square formed by the lines drawn from corners to corners of the four four-foot squares).

Boy: Four (Te/ttara).

Socrates: And how many (Po/sa de/) in this (e0n tw~|de; [e0n tw~|de “in this” refers to a small, four-foot square])?

Boy: Two (Du/o).

Socrates: And four (Ta\ de\ te/ttara) is how many times two (toi=n duoi=n ti/ e0stin;)?

Boy: Twice (Dipla/sia).

Socrates: This then (To/de ou]n), how many feet it becomes (posa/poun gi/gnetai;)?

Boy: Eight feet (O)ktw&poun).

Socrates: From what line (A0po\ poi/aj grammh=j; [Socrates asks from what line is the Eight feet square])?

Boy: From this (A0po\ tau/thj [the boy correctly points at the side of the Eight feet square]).

Socrates: From the line (A0po\ th=j) drawn from corner to corner (e0k gwni/aj ei0j gwni/an teinou/shj) of the four-foot (tou= tetra/podoj)?

Boy: Yes (Nai/).

Socrates: The professors call it the diagonal (Kalou=si de/ ge tau/thn dia/metron oi9 sofistai/ [85b4]): so if the diagonal is its name (w#st’ ei0 tau/th| dia/metroj o1noma), then according to you, Meno’s boy, the double space is the square of the diagonal (a0po\ th=j diame/trou a1n, w(j su\ fh/|j, w} pai= Me/nwnoj, gi/gnoit’ a2n to\ dipla/sion xwri/on).

Boy: Yes, certainly it is, Socrates (Panu me\n ou]n, w} Sw&kratej).

***

Notice that the name “sophist” has here, at 85b4, positive connotations.