Tuesday, March 19, 2024

Euthyphro 4

Socrates: Come then (Fe/re dh/), let us examine (e0piskeyw&meqa) our words (ti/ le/gomen). The thing and the person that are dear to the gods are holy (to\ me\n qeofile/j te kai\ o9 qeofilh\j a1nqrwpoj o3sioj), and the thing and the person that are hateful to the gods are unholy (to\ de\ qeomise\j kai\ o9 qeomish\j a0no/sioj); and the two are not the same (ou0 tau0to\n d e0sti/n), but the holy and the unholy are the exact opposite of each other (a0lla\ to\ e0nantiw&taton to\ o3sion tw~| a0nosi/w|). Is not this what we have said (ou0x ou3twj;)?

Euthyphro: Yes, just this (Ou3tw me\n ou]n).

Socrates: And it seems to be correct (Kai\ eu] ge fai/netai ei0rh=sqai;)?

Euthyphro: I think so, Socrates (Dokw~, w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Well then (Ou0kou=n), have we said this also, that the gods, Euthyphro, quarrel and disagree with each other, and that there is enmity between them (kai\ o3ti stasia/zousin oi9 qeoi/ w} Eu0qu/fron, kai\ diafe/rontai a0llh/loij kai\ e1xqra e0sti\n e0n a0llh/loij, kai\ tou=to ei1rhtai;)?

Euthyphro: Yes, we have said that (Ei1rhtai ga/r).

Socrates: But what things is the disagreement about, which causes enmity and anger (E!xqran de\ kai\ o0rga/j, w} a1riste, h9 peri\ ti/nwn diafora\ poiei=;)? Let us look at it this way (w{|de de\ skopw~men). If you and I were to disagree about number, for instance (a]r a2n ei0 diaferoi/meqa e0gw& te kai\ su\ peri\ a0riqmou=), which of two numbers were the greater (o9po/tera plei/w), would the disagreement about these matters make us enemies (h9 peri\ tou/twn diafora\ e0xqrou\j a2n h9ma=j poioi=) and make us angry with each other (kai\ o0rgi/zesqai a0llh/loij), or should we not quickly settle it by resorting to arithmetic (h2 e0pi\ logismo\n e0lqo/ntej peri/ ge tw~n toiou/twn taxu\ a2n a0pallagei=men;)?

Euthyphro: Of course we should (Pa/nu ge).

Socrates: Then, too (Ou0kou=n kai/), if we were to disagree about the relative size of things (peri\ tou= mei/zonoj kai\ e0la/ttonoj ei0 diaferoi/meqa), we should quickly put an end to the disagreement by measuring (e0pi\ to\ me/tron e0lqo/ntej taxu\ pausai/meq a2n th=j diafora=j;)?

Euthyphro: Yes (E!sti tau=ta).

Socrates: And we should, I suppose, come to terms about relative weights by weighing (Kai\ e0pi/ ge to\ i9sta/nai e0lqontej, w(j e0gw}|mai, peri\ tou= barute/rou te kai\ koufote/rou diakriqei=men a1n)?

Euthyphro: Of course (Pw~j ga\r ou1).

Socrates: But about what would a disagreement be (Peri\ ti/noj de\ dh\ dienexqe/ntej), which we could not settle (kai\ e0pi\ ti/na kri/sin ou0 duna/menoi a0fike/sqai) and which would cause us to be enemies (e0xqroi/ ge a2n a0llh/loij ei]men) and be angry with each other (kai\ o0rgizoi/meqa;)? Perhaps you cannot give an answer offhand (i1swj ou0 pro/xeiro/n soi/ e0stin); but let me suggest it (a0ll e0mou= le/gontoj). Is it not about right and wrong (sko/pei ei0 ta/de e0sti\ to/ te di/kaion kai\ to\ a1dikon), and noble and disgraceful (kai\ kalo\n kai\ ai0sxro/n), and good (kai\ a0gaqo/n) and bad (kai\ kako/n)? Are not those the questions (a]ra ou0 tau=ta/ e0stin) about which you and I and other people become enemies, because we differ about them and cannot reach any satisfactory agreement (w{n dienexqe/ntej kai\ ou0 duna/menoi e0pi\ i9kanh\n kri/sin au0tw~n e0lqei=n e0xqroi\ a0llh/loij gigno/meqa, o3tan gignw&meqa, kai\ e0gw_ kai\ su\ kai\ oi9 a1lloi a1nqrwpoi pa/ntej;)?

Euthyphro: Yes, Socrates, these are the questions about which we should become enemies (A0ll e1stin au3th h9 diafora/, w} Sw&kratej, kai\ peri\ tou/twn).

Socrates: And how about the gods Euthyphro (Ti/ de/; oi9 qeoi/, w} Eu0qu/fron)? If they disagree (ou0k ei1per ti diafe/rontai), would not they disagree about these questions (dia\ tau=ta diafe/roint a1n;)?

Euthyphro: Necessarily (Pollh\ a0na/gkh).

Socrates: Then, my noble Euthyphro, according to what you say, some of the gods too think some things are right or wrong and noble or disgraceful, and good or bad, and others disagree (Kai\ tw~n qew~n a1ra, w} gennai=e Eu0qu/fron, a1lloi a1lla di/kaia kai\ a1dika h9gou=ntai kata\ to\n so\n lo/gon, kai\ kala\ kai\ ai0sxra\ kai\ a0gaqa\ kai\ kaka/); for they would not quarrel with each other (ou0 ga\r a1n pou e0stasi/azon a0llh/loij) if they did not disagree about these matters (ei0 mh\ peri\ tou/twn diefe/ronto). Is that the case (h] ga/r;)?

Euthyphro: You are right (O0rqw~j le/geij).

Socrates: Then the gods in each group love the things which they consider good and right and hate the opposites of these things (Ou0kou=n a3per kala\ h9gou=ntai e3kastoi kai\ a0gaqa\ kai\ di/kaia, tau=ta kai\ filou/sin, ta\ de\ e0nanti/a tou/twn misou=sin;)?

Euthyphro: Certainly (Pa/nu ge).

Socrates: But you say that the same things (Tau0ta\ de/ ge, w(j su\ fh/|j) are considered right by some of them (oi9 me\n di/kaia h9gou=ntai,) and wrong by others (oi9 de\ a1dika); and it is because they disagree about these things (peri\ a4 kai\ a0mfisbhtou=ntej) that they quarrel (stasia/zousi/ te) and wage war with each other (kai\ polemou=sin a0llh/loij). Is not this what you said (a]ra ou0x ou3tw;)?

Euthyphro: It is (Ou3tw).

Socrates: Then, as it seems, the same things are hated and loved by the gods, and the same things would be dear and hateful to the gods (Tau1t a1ra, w(j e1oiken, misei=tai u9po\ tw~n qew~n kai\ filei=tai, kai\ qeomish= te kai\ qeofilh= tau1t a2n ei1h.).

Euthyphro: So it seems (E!oiken).

Socrates: And then the same things would be both holy and unholy (Kai\ o3sia a1ra kai\ a0no/sia ta\ au0ta\ a2n ei1h), Euthyphro (w} Eu0qu/fron), according to this statement (tou/tw| tw~| lo/gw|).

Euthyphro: I suppose so (Kinduneu/ei).

Socrates: Then you did not answer my question (ou0k a1ra o4 h0ro/mhn a0pekri/nw), my friend (w} qauma/sie). For I did not ask you what is at once holy and unholy (ou0 ga\r tou=to/ ge h0rw&twn, o4 tugxa/nei tau0to\n o2n o3sio/n te kai\ a0no/sion); but, judging from your reply, what is dear to the gods is also hateful to the gods (o4 d a2n qeofile/j h]|, kai\ qeomise/j e0stin, w(j e1oiken). And so, Euthyphro, it would not be surprising if, in punishing your father as you are doing, you were performing an act that is pleasing to Zeus (w#ste, w} Eu0qu/fron, o4 su\ nu=n poiei=j to\n pate/ra kola/zwn, ou0de\n qaumasto/n, ei0 tou=to drw~n tw~| me\n Dii\ prosfile\j poiei=j), but hateful to Cronus and Uranus (tw~| de\ Kro/nw| kai\ Ou0ranw~| e0xqro/n), and pleasing to Hephaestus (kai\ tw~| me\n H(fai/stw| fi/lon), but hateful to Hera (th=| de\ H!ra| e0xqro/n), and so forth in respect to the other gods, if any disagree with any other about it (kai\ ei1 tij a1lloj tw~n qew~n e3teroj e9te/rw| diafe/retai peri\ au0tou=, kai\ e0kei/noij kata\ ta\ au0ta/).

***

Burnet notes on tw~| me\n H(fai/stw| fi/lon (‘pleasing to Hephaestus’): ‘This is an allusion to the H#raj desmou\ju9po\ u9e/oj (Rep. 378d3).’ Rep. 378d takes us away from the story in Euthyphro 8b, but it concurs with Socrates’ broader sentiments about such stories about the gods, expressed by him in the Euthyphro: ‘Hera’s fetterings (H#raj de\ desmou/j) by her son (u9po\ ui9e/oj) and the hurling out of heaven of Hephaestus by his father (kai\ H(fai/stou r9i/yeij u9po\ patro/j) when he was trying to save his mother from a beating (Ilias I. 586-594) (mello/ntoj th=| mhtri\ tuptome/nh| a0mu/nein), and the battles of the gods in Homer’s verse (Il. Xx. 1-74, xxi. 385-513) (kai\ qeomaxi/aj o3saj O!mhroj pepoi/hken) are things that we must not admit into our city (ou0 paradekte/on ei0j th\n po/lin).’

But let me return to Burnet’s note on our story in the Euthyphro: ‘The story was that, when Hera had thrown Hephaestus out of heaven, he took his revenge by sending her a golden thrown with invisible bonds, so that, when she sat upon it, she was fast bound. At last Dionysus reconciled Hephaestus to his mother. Having made him drunk he brought him back to heaven against his will on a donkey.’

 

Monday, March 18, 2024

Euthyphro 3

Socrates: Then the best thing for me, my admirable Euthyphro, is (A]r ou]n moi, w} qauma/sie Eu0qu/fron kra/tisto/n e0sti) to become your pupil (maqhth=| sw~| gene/sqai) and, before the suit with Meletus comes on (kai\ pro\ th=j grafh=j th=j pro\j Me/lhton), to challenge him (au0ta\ tau=ta prokalei=sqai au0to\n) and say that I always thought it very important before to know about divine matters (le/gonta o3ti e1gwge kai\ e0n tw~| e1mprosqen xro/nw| ta\ qei=a peri\ pollou= e0poiou/mhn ei0de/nai) and that now (kai\ nu=n), since he says I am doing wrong by acting carelessly and making innovations in matters of religion (e0peidh/ me e0kei=noj au0tosxedia/zonta/ fhsi kai\ kainotomou=nta peri\ tw~n qei/wn e0camarta/nein), I have become your pupil (maqhth\j dh\ ge/gona so/j). And “Meletus,” I should say, “if you acknowledge that Euthyphro is wise in such matters (kai\ ei0 me/n, w} Me/lhte, fai/hn a1n, Eu0qu/frona o9mologei=j sofo\n ei]nai ta\ toiau=ta), then believe that I also hold correct opinions (kai\ o0rqw~j nomi/zein  e0me\ h9gou=), and do not bring me to trial (kai\ mh\ dika/zou); and if you do not acknowledge that (ei0 de\ mh/), then bring a suit against him, my teacher (e0kei/nw| tw~| didaska/lw| la/xe di/khn pro/teron h2 e0moi/), and charge him with corrupting the old (w(j tou\j presbute/rouj diafqei/ronti), namely, his father and me (e0me/ te kai\ to\n au9tou= pate/ra), which he does by teaching me and by correcting and punishing his father (e0me/ te dida/skonti, e0kei=non de\ nouqetou=nti/ te kai\ kola/zonti).” And if he does not do as I ask (kai\ a2n mh/ moi pei/qhtai) and does not release me from the indictment (mhd a0fi/h th=j di/khj) or bring it against you in my stead (h2 a0nt e0mou= gra/fhtai se/), I could say in the courts the same things I said in my challenge to him, could I not (au0ta\ tau=ta le/gein e0n tw~| dikasthri/w|, a4 proukalou/mhn au0to/n)?

Euthyphro: By Zeus, Socrates (Nai\ ma\ Di/a, w} Sw&kratej), if he should undertake to indict me (ei0 a1ra me e0pixeirh/seie gra/fesqai), I fancy I should find his weak spot (eu3roima1n, w(j oi]mai, o3ph| saqro/j e0stin), and it would be much more a question about him in the court (kai\ polu\ a2n h(mi=n pro/teron peri\ e0kei/nou lo/goj e0ge/neto e0n tw|~ dikasthri/w|) than about me (h2 peri\ e0mou=).

Socrates: And I (Kai\ e0gw& toi), my dear friend (w} fi/le e9tai=re), perceiving this (tau=ta gignw&skwn), wish to become your pupil (maqhth\j e0piqumw~ gene/sqai so/j); for I know (ei0dw&j) that neither this fellow Meletus, nor anyone else, seems to notice you at all (o3ti kai\ a1lloj pou/ tij kai\ o9 Me/lhtoj ou3toj se\ me\n ou0de\ dokei= o9ra=n), but he has seen through me so sharply and so easily (e0me\ de\ ou3twj o0ce/wj kai\ r9a|di/wj katei=den) that he has indicted me for impiety (w#ste a0sebei/aj e0gra/yato). Now in the name of Zeus (nu=n ou]n pro\j Dio/j), tell me (le/ge moi) what you just now (o9 nn=n dh/) asserted that you knew so well (safw~j ei0de/nai diisxuri/zou). What do you say is the nature of piety (poi=o/n ti to\ eu0sebe\j fh=|j ei]nai) and impiety (kai\ to\ a0sebe/j), both in relation to murder (kai\ peri\ fo/nou) and to other things (kai\ peri\ tw~n a1llwn;). Is not holiness always the same with itself in every action (h2 ou0 tau0to/n e0stin e0n pa/sh| pra/cei to\ o3sion au0to\ au9tw~|), and, on the other hand, is not unholiness the opposite of all holiness (kai\ to\ a0no/sion au] tou= me\n o9si/ou panto\j e0nanti/on), always the same with itself (au0to\ de\ au9tw~| o3moion) and whatever it is to be unholy possessing some one characteristic quality (kai\ e1xon mi/an tina i0de/an pa=n, o3 ti/ per a2n me/llh| a0no/sion ei]nai;)?

Euthyphro: Certainly (Pa/ntwj dh/pou), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Tell me then (Le/ge dh/), what do you say holiness is (ti/ fh\|j ei]nai to\ o3sion), and what unholiness (kai\ to\ a0no/sion;).

Euthyphro: Well then, I say (Le/gw toi/nun) that holiness is (o3ti to\ me\n o3sio/n e0stin) doing what I am doing now (o3per e0gw_ nu=n poiw~), prosecuting the wrongdoer who commits murder or steals from the temples or does any such thing (tw~| a0dikou=nti h2 peri\ fo/nouj h2 peri\ i9erw~n klopa\j h1 ti a1llo tw~n toiou/twn e0camarta/nonti e0pecie/nai), whether he be your father (e0a/n te path\r w@n tugxa/nh|) or your mother (e0a/n te mh/thr) or anyone else (e0a/n te a1lloj o3stij ou]n), and not prosecuting him (to\ de\ mh\ e0pecie/nai) is unholy (a0no/sion). And, Socrates (e0pei/, w} Sw&kratej), see what a sure proof I offer you (qea/sai w(j me/ga soi e0rw~ tekmh/rion), – a proof I have already given to others, – that this is established and right (tou= no/mou o3ti ou3twj e1xei, o4 kai\ a1lloij h1dh ei=pon o3ti tau=ta o0rqw~j a2n ei1h ou3tw gigno/mena) and that we ought not to let him who acts impiously go unpunished (mh\ e0pitre/pein tw~| a0sebou=nti), no matter who he may be (mhd a2n o9stisou=n tugxa/nh| w!n). Men believe that Zeus is (au0toi\ ga\r oi9 a1nqrwpoi tugxa/nousi nomi/zontej to\n Di/a) the best and most just of the gods (tw~n qew~n a1riston kai\ dikaio/taton), and they acknowledge that he put his father in bonds (kai\ tou/ton o9mologou/si to\n au9tou= pate/ra dh=sai) because he wickedly devoured his children (o3ti tou\j u9iei=j kate/pinen ou0k e0n di/kh|), and he in turn had mutilated his father (ka0keino/n ge au] to\n au9tou= pate/ra e0ktemei=n) for similar reasons (di e3tera toiau=ta); but they are incensed against me (e0moi\ de\ xalepai/nousin) because I proceed against my father (o3ti tw~| patri\ e/pece/rxomai) when he has done wrong (a0dikou=nti), and so they are inconsistent in what they say about the gods (kai\ ou3twj au0toi\ au9toi=j ta\ e0nanti/a le/gousi peri/ te tw~n qew~n) and about me (kai\ peri\ e0mou=).

Socrates: Is not this, Euthyphro, the reason why I am prosecuted (A]ra/ ge, w} Eu0qu/fron, tou=t e1stin ou[ e3neka th\n grafh\n feu/gw), because when people tell such stories about the gods (o3ti ta\ toiau=ta e0peida/n tij peri\ tw~n qew~n le/gh|) I find it hard to accept them (dusxerw~j pwj a0pode/xomai)? And therefore, probably, people will say I am wrong (di) a4 dh/, w(j e1oike, fh/sei ti/j me e0camarta/nein). Now if you, who know so much about such things, accept these tales (nu=n ou]n ei0 kai\ soi\ tau=ta cundokei= tw~| eu] ei0do/ti peri\ tw~n toiou/twn), I suppose I too must give way (a0na/gkh dh/, w(j e1oike, kai\ h9mi=n cugxwrei=n). For what am I to say (ti/ ga\r kai\ fh/somen), who confess frankly that I know nothing about them (oi3 ge au0toi\ o9mologou=men peri\ au0tw~n mhde\n ei0de/nai)? But tell me (a0lla/ moi ei0pe/), in the name of Zeus, the god of friendship (pro\j Fili/ou), do you really believe these things happened (su\ w(j a0lhqw~j h9gei= tau=ta ou3twj gegone/nai;)?

Euthyphro: Yes, and still more wonderful things than these (Kai\ e1ti ge tou/twn qaumasiw&tera), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej), which most people do not know (a4 oi9 polloi\ ou0k i1sasin).

Socrates: And so you believe that there was really war between the gods (Kai\ po/lemon a1ra h9gei= su\ ei]nai tw~| o1nti e0n toi=j qeoi=j pro\j a0llh/louj), and fearful enmities (kai\ e1xqraj te deina/j) and battles (kai\ ma/xaj) and other things of the sort (kai\ a1lla toiau=ta polla/), such as are told of by the poets (oi[a le/getai u9po\ tw~n poihtw~n) and represented in varied designs by the great artists in our sacred places (kai\ u9po\ tw~n a0gaqw~n grafe/wn ta/ te a1lla i9era\ h9mi=n katapepoi/kiltai) and especially on the robe which is carried up to the Acropolis at the great Panathenaia? for this is covered with such representations (kai\ dh\ kai\ toi=j mega/loij Panaqhnai/oij o9 pe/ploj mesto\j tw~n toiou/twn poikilma/twn a0na/getai ei0j th\n a0kro/polin;). Shall we agree that these things are true, Euthyphro (tau=ta a0lhqh= fw~men ei]nai, w} Eu0qu/fron;)?

Euthyphro: Not only those things (Mh\ mo/non ge), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej); but, as I said just now (a0ll o3per a1rti ei]pon), I will, if you like, tell you many other things about the gods (kai\ a1lla soi e0gw_ polla/, e0a/nper bou/lh|, peri\ tw~n qei/wn dihgh/somai), which I am sure will amaze you when you hear them (a4 su\ a0kou/wn eu] oi]d o3ti e0kplagh/sei).

Socrates: I dare say (Ou0k a2n qauma/zoimi). But you can tell me those tings at your leisure some other time (a0lla\ tau=ta me/n moi ei0j au]=qij e0pi\ sxolh=j dihgh/sei). At present (nuni\ de/) try to tell more clearly what I asked you just now (o3per a1rti se h0ro/mhn, peirw~ safe/steron ei0pei=n). For, my friend, you did not give me sufficient information before (ou0 ga/r me, w} e9tai=re, to\ pro/teron i9kanw~j e0di/dacaj), when I asked (e0rwth/santa) what holiness was (to\ o3sion, o3 ti pot ei1h), but you told me (a0lla/ moi ei]pej) that this was holy (o3ti tou=to tugxa/nei o3sion o1n) which you are now doing (o4 su\ nu=n poiei=j), prosecuting your father for murder (fo/nou e0peciw_n tw~| patri/).

Euthyphro: Well, what I said was true (Kai\ a0lhqh= ge e1legon), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Perhaps (I!!swj). But (a0lla\ ga/r), Euthyphro (w} Eu0qu/fron), you say that many other things are holy, do you not (kai\ a1lla polla\ fh|\j ei]nai o3sia)?

Euthyphro: Why, so they are (Kai\ ga\r e1stin).

Socrates: Now call to mind (Me/mnhsai ou]n) that this is not what I asked you (o3ti ou0 tou=to/ soi diekeleuo/mhn), to tell me one or two of the many holy acts (e3n ti h2 du/o me dida/cai tw~n pollw~n o9si/wn), but to tell the essential aspect (a0ll e0kei=no au0to\ to\ ei]doj), by which all holy acts are holy (w{| pa/nta ta\ o3sia o3sia/ e0stin;); for you said that all unholy acts were unholy and all holy acts holy by one aspect (e1fhsqa ga/r pou mia| i0de/a| ta/ te a0no/sia a0no/sia ei]nai kai\ ta\ o3sia o3sia). Or don’t you remember (h2 ou0 mnhmoneu/eij;)?

Euthyphro: I remember (E!gwge).

Socrates: Tell me then what this aspect is (Tau/thn toi/nun me au0th\n di/dacon th\n i0de/an, ti/j pote/ e0stin), that I may keep my eye fixed upon it (i3na ei0j e0kei/nhn a0poble/pwn) and employ it as a model (kai\ xrw~menoj au0th=| paradei/gmati) and, if anything you or anyone else does agrees with it, may say that the act is holy, and if not, that it is unholy (o4 me\n a2n toiou=ton h], w{n a2n h2 su\ h2 a1lloj tij pra/tth|, fw~ o3sion ei]nai, o4 da2n mh\ toiou=ton, mh\ fw~).

Euthyphro: If you wish me to explain in that way (A)ll ei0 ou3tw bou/lei, w} Sw&kraej), I will do so (kai\ ou3tw soi fra/sw).

Socrates: I do wish it (A)lla\ mh\n bou/lomai/ ge).

Euthyphro: Well then, what is dear to the gods is holy (E!sti toi/nun to\ me\n toi=j qeoi=j prosfile\j o3sion), and what is not dear to them is unholy (to\ de\ mh\ prosfile\j a0no/sion).

Socrates: Excellent (Pagka/lwj), Euthyphro (w} Eu0qu/fron); now you have answered as I asked you to answer (kai\ w(j e0gw_ e0zh/toun a0pokri/nasqai/ se, ou3tw nu=n a0pekri/nw). However, whether it is true (ei0 me/ntoi a0lhqe/j), I am not yet sure (tou=to ou1pw oi]da); but you will, of course, show (a0lla\ su\ dh=lon o3ti e0pekdida/ceij) what you say is true (w(j e1stin a0lhqh= a4 le/geij).

Euthyphro: Certainly (Pa/nu me\n ou]n).

Sunday, March 17, 2024

My computer works. I can listen to music, if I wish. But there is one thing that, this evening, does not, and does not, and does not work, however often I try, and try. Again, it happened thanks to my ‘protectors’; however much I tried, I could not open the ‘Windows’, and could not write my next post on Plato. Actually, it was the most important and most fortunate interference. It was time for me to stop working on Plato.

And so, I began to read Dostoyevsky’s Bratia Karamazovy (The Brothers Karamazov). Until then, I could not abide The Brothers Karamazov. I tried and tried, but after several pages I always had to put it away. The only thing of Dostoyevsky that I read with pleasure was The Idiot; but now, as I think of it, I may have liked his Besy (Demons); but it’s well over fifty years that I read them, and I cannot be sure. What I know; I read his Prestuplenie I Nakazanie (Crime and Punishment), I forced myself to read it, but I did not like it.

But now it all has changed. I love every page, every paragraph, every sentence  of Bratia Karamazovy.

Anyway, if my ‘protectors’ think it important to prevent me from using the Online Russian Tolkovyj Slovar, I’ll have to contact Russkaya Kniga (the Russian Books) in London, and get it in the book format. In the mean-time, I’ll simply have to immerse myself in it; there are very few words that I simply do not understand.

But Why? Why? Why? 

PS

I put this text on my blog early in January (perhaps on Friday, January 5th), and left it there as a draft. Now, to my surprise, it was confirmed for publishing, unbeknown to me, and counted as No 646. I realised this when The Meno 1 was counted as 647. For once, I was not  too displeased with this intervention. The 'Why' is not difficult to surmise. Someone, reading my 'A grotesque distortion', realised that the article 'Why?, left as a draft on my blog, was clearly not far apart in time from it, and confirmed the draft of 'Why' for publication.

Let me elucidate the last paragraph of the 'Why' article. On that day I could not get access to the online Russian dictionary, each word explained in Russian. The draft of 'Why', put on my blog, fulfilled its function. Not long after I put it on my blog, the Tolkovyj slovar began to work again. I was glad, because I began to look for words simply to check the correct accent. Accent in Russian language is very important; thus д0Ñ€0ги means 'dear' ('my children are dear to me), Ð´0Ñ€0ги means 'roads'.


Thursday, March 14, 2024

No end to interference? - correction

I must admit, the latest interference is very clever, for it gives me pain dozens and dozens of times per page. I try to divide the text into as short bits of text as possible, for in that way it is most instructive to anyone who wants to learn Ancient Greek. Let me give examples from the text I have written just now: ‘to become your pupil’ (maqhth=| sw~| gene/sqai); ‘And if he does not do as I ask’ (kai\ a2n mh/ moi pei/qhtai) ‘and does not release me from the indictment’ (mhd a0fi/h th=j di/khj) ‘or bring it against you in my stead’ (h2 a0nt e0mou= gra/fhtai se/); ‘I fancy I should find his weak spot’ (eu3roima1n, w(j oi]mai, o3ph| saqro/j e0stin).

My mouse, which until now worked perfectly, became unpredictably wavered; instead of taking me just where I want, it takes me several lines up, several lines down, several words to the right, several words to the left of where I want it. Thus, in this short text I must make 5 complicated corrections to get each time to where I want. If it goes on like this, I shall begin to divide the text into longer chunks. It will still be much better for a learner than what the parallel Greek-English LOEB texts can provide him with.

***

I wrote the next big speech of Euthyphro, in which he gives his definition of holiness and unholiness. I wrote the whole of it in English; at the end of it I inserted one bracket, in which I wrote the Greek text of that speech of Euthyphro. I moved the mouse just once to achieve this, but that one movement of mouse was enough to show me that the mouse did not yet lose any of its waywardness. Tired to death, I went to sleep. I woke up after two full hours of good sleep. I got dressed, took a sip of ‘MOJUׄ GINGER SHOTS’ and a sip of ‘POM 100% POMEGRANATE’, and went to the Euthyphro speech. To my great delight, the mouse works perfect. And I am happy it does, for the text can be divided into a number of short parts. Let me just show the first sentence of Euthyphro’s speech:

Euthyphro: Well then, I say (Le/gw toi/nun) that holiness is (o3ti to\ me\n o3sio/n e0stin) doing what I am doing now (o3per e0gw_ nu=n poiw~), prosecuting the wrongdoer who commits murder or steals from the temples or does any such thing (tw~| a0dikou=nti h2 peri\ fo/nouj h2 peri\ i9erw~n klopa\j h1 ti a1llo tw~n toiou/twn e0camarta/nonti e0pecie/nai), whether he be your father (e0a/n te path\r w@n tugxa/nh|) or your mother (e0a/n te mh/thr) or anyone else (e0a/n te a1lloj o3stij ou]n), and not prosecuting him (to\ de\ mh\ e0pecie/nai) is unholy (a0no/sion).

Just as a matter of interest, let us observe the one long passage in that first sentence: ‘prosecuting the wrongdoer who commits murder or steals from the temples or does any such thing (tw~| a0dikou=nti h2 peri\ fo/nouj h2 peri\ i9erw~n klopa\j h1 ti a1llo tw~n toiou/twn e0camarta/nonti e0pecie/nai)’. What forced me to write that passage so long? The English translation begins with ‘prosecuting’, the Greek original ends with ‘e0pecie/nai’; ‘prosecuting’, with which the English translation begins, is the translation of ‘e0pecie/nai’, with which the Greek original of that passage ends.

Euthyphro 2

Socrates: What is your case, Euthyphro (E!stin de\ dh/ soi, w} Eu0qu/fron, ti/j h9 di/kh;)? Are you defending or prosecuting (feu/geij au0th\n h2 diw&keij;)?

Euthyphro: Prosecuting (Diw&kw).

Socrates: Whom (Ti/na;)?

Euthyphro: Such a man that they think I am insane because I am prosecuting him (O$n diw&kwn au] dokw~ mai/nesqai).

Socrates: Why? Are you prosecuting one who has wings to fly away with (Ti/ de/; peto/meno/n tina diw&keij;)?

***

H. N. Fowler, the translator, has a useful note on ‘prosecuting’: ‘The Greek word [diw&kw] has much the same meaning as the Latin prosequor, from which the English “prosecute” is derived, “follow”, “pursue”, and is at the same time the technical term for “prosecute”.’

***

Euthyphro: No flying for him at his ripe old age (Pollpou= ge dei= pe/tesqai, o3j ge tugxa/nei w_n eu] ma/la presbu/thj).

Socrates: Who is he (Ti/j ou[toj;)?

Euthyphro: My father (O( e0mo\j path/r).

Socrates: Your father, my dear man (O( so/j, w} be/ltiste;)?

Euthyphro: Certainly (Pa/nu me\n ou]n).

Socrates: But what is the charge (E!stin de\ ti/ to\ e1gklhma), and what is the suit about (kai\ ti/noj h9 di/kh;)?

Euthyphro: Murder, Socrates (Fo/nou, w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Heracles! (H(ra/kleij!) Surely Euthyphro (h] pou, w} Eu0qu/fron), most people do not know (a0gnoei=tai u9po\ tw~n pollw~n) where the right lies (o3ph| pote\ o0rqw~j e1xei); for I fancy it is not everyone who can rightly do what you are doing (ou0 ga\r oi]mai/ ge tou= e0pituxo/ntoj o0rqw_j au0to\ pra=cai), but only one who is very far advanced in wisdom (a0lla\ po/rrw pou h1dh sofi/aj e0lau/nontoj).

Euthyphro: Very far indeed, Socrates, by Zeus (Po/rw me/ntoi nh\ Di/a, w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Is the one who was killed by your father a relative (E1stin de\ dh\ tw~n oi0kei/wn tij o9 teqnew_j u9po\ tou= sou= patro/j;)? But of course he was (h2 dh=la dh/); for you would not bring a charge of murder against him on a stranger’s account (ou0 ga\r a2n pou/ ge u9pe\r a0llotri/ou e0pech/|eisqa fo/nou au0tw~|).

Euthyphro: It is ridiculous (Geloi=on), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej), that you think it matters (o3ti oi1ei ti diafe/rein) whether the man who was killed was a stranger or a relative (ei1te a0llo/trioj ei1te oi0kei=oj o9 teqnew&j), and do not see that the only thing to consider is (a0ll ou0 tou=to mo/non dei= fula/ttein) whether the action of the slayer was justified or not (ei1te e0n di/kh| e1kteinen o9 ktei/naj ei1te mh/), and that if it was justified (kai\ ei0 me\n e0n di/kh|) one ought to let him alone (e0a=n), and if not (ei0 de\ mh/), one ought to proceed against him (e0pecie/nai), even if he share one’s hearth and eat at one’s table (e0a\n o9 ktei&naj sune/stio/j soi kai\ o9motra/pezoj h]|). For the pollution is the same (i1son ga\r to\ mi/asma gi/gnetai) if you associate knowingly with such a man (e0a\n cunh=|jtw~| toiou/tw| cuneidw&j) and do not purify yourself and him (kai\ mh\ a0fosioi=j seauto/n te kai\ e0kei=non) by proceeding against him (th=| di/kh| e0peciw&n). In this case, the man who was killed was a hired workman of mine (e0pei\ o3 ge a0poqanw_n pela/thj tij h]n e0mo/j), and when we were farming at Naxos (kai\ w(j e0gewrgou=men e0n th=| Na/cw|), he was working there on our land (e0qh/teuen e0kei= par h9mi=n). Now he got drunk (paroinh/saj ou]n), got angry with one of our house slaves (kai\ o0rgisqei\j tw~n oi0ketw~n tini tw~n h9mete/rwn), and butchered him (a0posfa/ttei au0to/n). So my father bound him hand and foot (o9 ou]n path\r sundh/saj tou\j po/daj kai\ tou\j xei=raj au0tou=), through him into a ditch (katabalw_n e0j ta/fron tina/), and sent a man here to Athens to ask the religious adviser (pe/mpei deu=ro a1ndra peuso/menon tou= e0chghtou=) what he ought to do (o3 ti xrei/h poiei=n). In the mean time he paid no attention to the man as he lay there bound (e0n de\ tou/tw| tw|~ xro/nw| tou= dedeme/nou w)ligw&rei te), and neglected him (kai\ h0me/lei), thinking that he was a murderer (w(j a0ndrofo/nou) and it did not matter (kai\ ou0de\n o2n pra=gma) if he were to die (ei0 kai\ a0poqa/noi). And that is just what happened to him (o3per ou]n kai\ e1paqen). For he died of hunger and cold and his bonds (u9po\ ga\r limou= kai\ r9i/gouj kai\ tw~n desmw~n a0poqnh/|skei) before the messenger came back from the adviser (pri\n to\n a1ggelon para\ tou= e0chgh/tou a0fike/sqai). Now my father and the rest of my relatives are angry with me (tau=ta dh\ ou]n kai\ a0ganaktei= o3 te path\r kai\ oi9 a1lloi oi0kei=oi), because for the sake of this murderer (o3ti e0gw_ u9pe\r tou= a0ndrofo/nou) I am prosecuting my father for murder (tw|~ patri\ fo/nou e0pece/rxomai). For they say he did not kill him (ou1te a0poktei/nanti, w#j fasin e0kei=noi), and if he had killed him never so much (ou1t ei0 o3ti ma/lista a0pe/kteinen), yet since the dead man was a murderer (a0ndrofo/nou ge o1ntoj tou= a0poqano/ntoj), I ought not to trouble myself about such a fellow (ou0 dei=n fronti/zein u9pe\r tou= toiou=tou), because it is unholy for a son to prosecute his father for murder (a0no/sion ga\r ei]nai to\ ui9o\n patri\ fo/nou e0pecie/nai). Which shows how little they know what the divine law is in regard to holiness and unholiness (kakw~j ei0do/tej, w} Sw&kratej, to\ qei=on w(j e1xei tou= o9si/ou te pe/ri kai\ tou= a0nosi/ou).

Socrates: But, in the name of Zeus, Euthyphro (Su\ de\ dh\ pro\j Dio/j, w} Eu0qu/fron), do you think your knowledge about divine laws and holiness and unholiness is so exact (ou9twsi\ a0kribw~j oi1ei e0pi/stasqai peri\ tw~n qei/wn, o3ph| e1xei kai\ tw~n o9si/wn te kai\ a0nosi/wn), that, when the facts are (w#ste tou/twn ou3tw praxqe/ntwn) as you say (w(j su\ le/geij), you are not afraid of doing something unholy  yourself in prosecuting your father for murder (ou0 fobei= dikazo/menoj tw~| patri/, o3pwj mh\ au] su\ a0no/sion pra=gma tugxa/nh|j pra/ttwn;)?

Euthyphro: I should be of no use, Socrates (Ou0de\n ga\r a1n mou o1feloj ei1h, w} Sw&kratej), and Euthyphro would be in no way different from other men (ou0de/ tw| a2n diafe/roi Eu0qu/frwn tw~n pollw~n a0nqrw&pwn), if I did not have exact knowledge about all such things (ei0 mh\ ta\ toiau=ta pa/nta a0kribw~j ei0dei/hn).