Back to the boy

Socrates: Well then (Ei]en), my fine friend (w} fe/riste): we have stated, then, and defined what it really is that you must deliberate about (o4 me\n dh\ tugxa/nei o2n peri\ ou4 bouleute/on, ei1rhtai/ te kai\ w#ristai); and so looking towards that (ble/pontej de\ dh\ pro\j au0to\) let us say, for the rest (ta\ loipa\ le/gwmen), what advantage or harm will be likely to turn out for the person granting favours, from lover and non-lover (ti/j w)feli/a h2 bla/bh a0po/ te e0rw~ntoj kai\ mh\ tw~| xarizome/nw| e0c ei0ko/toj sumbh/setai). Now it is necessarily the case, I suppose, that the man who is ruled by desire and enslaved to pleasure will make the one he loves as pleasing to himself as possible (tw~| dh\ u9po\ e0piqumi/aj a0rxome/nw| douleuo/nti/ te h9donh=| a0na/gkh pou to\n e0rw&menon w(j h3diston e9autw~| paraskeua/zein); and to a sick man anything that does not resist him is pleasant (nosou=nti de\ pa=n h9du\ to\ mh\ a0ntitei=non), anything that is stronger than he is (krei=tton de/), or equal to him (kai\ i1son), is hateful (e0xqro/n). So a lover will not willingly put up with his beloved’s being stronger than him or matching him (ou1te dh\ krei/ttw ou1te i0sou/menon e9kw_n e0rasth\j paidika\ a0ne/cetai), but always tries to make him weaker and inferior (h3ttw de\ kai\ u9podee/steron a0ei\ a0perga/zetai); and an ignorant man is weaker than a wise one (h3ttwn de\ a0maqh\j sofou=), a coward than a brave man (deilo\j a0ndrei/ou), a poor speaker than an expert in rhetoric (a0du/natoj ei0pei=n r9htorikou=), a slow-witted man than a quick one (bradu\j a0gxi/nou). When all these faults (tosou/twn kakw&n) and more besides (kai\ e1ti pleio/nwn) make their appearance or are present by nature in the mind of a loved one, a lover will necessarily delight in these (kata\ th\n dia/noian e0rasth\n e0rwme/nw| a0na/gkh gignome/nwn te kai\ fu/sei e0no/ntwn me\n h3desqai) and procure others (ta\ de\ paraskeua/zein), or else he will be deprived of what is immediately pleasant (h2 ste/resqai tou= parauti/ka h9de/oj). Necessarily then, he will be jealous (fqonero\n dh\ a0na/gkh ei]nai), and by keeping him from many other forms of association (kai\ pollw~n me\n a1llwn sunousiw~n a0pei/rgonta), of a beneficial kind (kai\ w)feli/mwn), which would most make a man of him (o3qen a2n ma/lista a0nh\r gi/gnoito), he will be a cause of great harm to him (mega/lhj ai1tion ei]nai bla/bhj); and the greatest harm he will cause will be by keeping him from that association from which his wisdom would be most increased (megi/sthj de\ th=j o3qen a2n fronimw&tatoj ei1h). This is that divine thing, philosophy (tou=to de\ h9 qei/a filosofi/a tugxa/nei o1n), from which the lover will necessarily keep his beloved far away (h3j e0rasth\n paidika\ a0na/gkh po/rrwqen ei1rgein), out of a dread of being despised (peri/fobon o1nta tou= katafronhqh=nai); and he will contrive in everything else (ta/ te a1lla mhxana=sqai) that he should be in complete ignorance (o3pwj a2n h]| pa/nta a0gnow~n) and completely dependent on his lover (kai\ pa/nta a0poble/pwn ei0j to\n e0rasth/n), which is the condition in which he will offer most pleasure to the other, but most harm to himself (oi[oj w@n tw~| me\n h3distoj e9autw~| de\ blaberw&tatoj ei1h). So, in respect of the mind (ta\ me\n ou]n kata\ dia/noian), there is no profit at all in a man as guardian and partner if he is in love (e0pi/tropo/j te kai\ koinwno\j ou0damh=| lusitelh\j a0nh\r e1xwn e1rwta).

            ‘What we must look after this is the condition of the body and its treatment: what sort of physical condition will the man who is under the compulsion to pursue pleasure in preference to good aim to produce in the person under his charge, and what type of treatment will he apply (Th\n de\ tou= sw&matoj e3cin te kai\ qerapei/an oi3an te kai\ w(j qerapeu/sei ou[ a2n ge/nhtai ku/rioj, o4j h9du\ pro\ a0gaqou= h0na/gkastai diw&kein, dei= meta\ tau=ta i0dei=n)? He will be seen pursuing someone soft rather than tough (o0fqh/setai de\ malqako/n tina kai\ ou0 stereo\n diw&kwn), brought up in a shadowed light rather than in the full light of the sun (ou0d’ e0n h9li/w| kaqarw~| teqramme/non a0lla\ u9po\ summigei= skia=|), unversed in manly exertions and harsh, sweated labour (po/nwn me\n a0ndrei/wn kai\ u9drw&twn chrw~n a1peiron), but fully versed in a soft effeminate way of life (e0mpeiro/n de\ a9palh=j kai\ a0na/ndrou diai/thj), decking himself out in borrowed colours and ornaments for lack of his own (a0llotri/oij xrw~masi kai\ ko/smoij xh/tei oi0kei/wn kosmou/menon), and resorting to all the other practices that go along with these (o3sa te a1lla tou/toij e3petai pa/nta e0pithdeu/onta), which are obvious (a4 dh=la) and are not worth listing further (kai\ ou0k a1cion peraite/rw probai/nein), but will allow us to go on to another matter after we have laid down one summary point (a0lla\ e4n kefa/laion o9risame/nouj e0p’ a1llo i0e/nai): a body in such a condition is one that (to\ ga\r toiou=ton sw~ma) in war (e0n polemw~|) and in other times of great crisis (kai\ a1llaij xrei/aij o3sai mega/lai) gives heart to the enemy (oi9 me\n e0xqroi\ qarrou=sin), and creates alarm in one’s friends, and in one’s lovers themselves (oi9 de\ fi/loi kai\ au0toi\ oi0 e0rastai\ fobou=ntai).

            ‘This then, we should dismiss as obvious (Tou=to me\n ou]n w(j dh=lon e0ate/on), and pass on to the next point (to\ d’ e0fech=j r9hte/on): what advantage or what harm to us (ti/na h9mi=n w)feli/an h2 ti/na bla/bhn) in respect of our possessions (peri\ th\n kth/sin) the society and guardianship of the man in love bring (h9 tou= e0rw~ntoj o9mili/a te kai\ e0pitropei/a pare/cetai). This at least is clear enough to everyone (safe\j dh\ touto/ ge panti\ me/n), and especially to the lover (ma/lista de\ tw~| e0rasth|/): that he would pray above all for the one he loves to be bereft of his dearest and best-intentioned and most divine possessions (o3ti tw~n filta/twn kai\ eu0nousta/twn kai\ qeiota/twn kthma/twn o0rfano\n pro\ panto\j eu1cait’ a2n ei]nai to\n e0rw&menon); for he would be happy for him to be deprived of father and mother, relations and friends (patro\j ga\r kai\ mhtro\j kai\ suggenw~n kai\ fi/lwn ste/resqai a2n au0to\n de/caito), thinking them likely to prevent and censure the most pleasant intercourse he has with him (diakwluta\j kai\ e0pitimhta\j h9gou/menoj th=j h9di/sthj pro\j au0to\n o9mili/aj). Further, if his loved one possesses property (A0lla\ mh\n ou0si/an g’ e1xonta), in the form of gold (xrusou=) or any other possession (h1 tinoj a1llhj kth/sewj), he will think him neither as easy to catch nor as manageable when caught (ou1te eu0a/lwton o9moi/wj ou1te a9lo/nta eu0metaxei/ston h9gh/setai); as a result there is every necessity (e0c w{n pa=sa a0na/gkh) that the lover should begrudge his beloved his possession of property (e0rasth\n paidikoi=j fqonei=n me\n ou0si/an kekthme/noij), and delight in his loss of it (a0pollume/nhj de\ xai/rein). So too the lover would pray that his beloved should be without wife, without children, without home for the longest possible time (e1ti toi/nun a1gamon, a1paida, a1oikon o3ti plei=ston xro/non paidika\ e0rasth\j eu1cait’ a2n gene/sqai), because he desires to reap the sweetness of his own enjoyment for as long as possible (to\ au9tou= gluku\ w(j plei=ston xro/non karpou=sqai e0piqumw~n).

            There are indeed other things to be avoided (E!sti me\n dh\ kai\ a1lla kaka/), but with most of them some divine agency mixes a pleasure of the moment (a0lla/ tij dai/mwn e1meice toi=j plei/stoij e0n tw~| parauti/ka h9donh/n): so in the flatterer (oi[on ko/laki), a formidable beast (deinw~| qhri/w|) and a source of great harm (kai\ bla/bh| mega/lh|), nature has mixed in a certain pleasure which is not entirely gross (o3mwj e0pe/meicen h9 fu/sij h9donh/n tina ou0k a1mouson); and one might object to a courtesan as something harmful (kai/ tij e9tai/ran w(j blabero\n ye/ceien a2n), and many other similar creatures (kai\ a1lla polla\ tw~n toioutotro/pwn qremma/twn te) and their practices (kai\ e0pithdeuma/twn), which have the feature of being very pleasant, at least to meet the needs of the day (oi[j to/ ge kaq’ h9me/ran h9di/stoisin ei]nai u9pa/rxei); but for the beloved the lover is the least pleasant of all things to spend the day with, in addition to his harmfulness (paidikoi=j de\ e0rasth\j pro\j tw~| blaberw~| kai\ ei0j to\ sunhmereu/ein pa/ntwn a0hde/staton). As the proverb goes, “the young delight the young” (h3lika ga\r dh\ kai\ o9 palaio\j lo/goj te/rpein to\n h3lika) – for I suppose the match between their ages draws them to matching pleasures and so makes them friends on the grounds of likeness (h9 ga\r oi]mai xro/nou i0so/thj e0p’ i1saj h9dona\j a1gousa di’ o9moio/thta fili/an pare/xetai) – yet all the same even these are bound to have enough of being together (a0ll’ o3mwj ko/ron ge kai\ tou/twn sunousi/a e1xei). What more, in every sphere what is compulsory is said to be oppressive to everyone (kai\ mh\n to/ ge a0nagkai=on au] baru\ panti\ peri\ pa=n le/getai); and this is especially present in the relation of lover to beloved, in addition to their dissimilarity (o4 dh\ pro\j th=| a0nomoio/thti ma/lista e0rasth\j pro\j paidika\ e1xei). The older man does not willingly let the younger one leave his company by day or by night (newte/rw| ga\r presbu/teroj sunw_n ou1q’ h9me/raj ou1te nukto\j e9kw_n a0polei/petai), but is driven by a frenzied compulsion which draws him on by giving him continual pleasures (a0ll’ u9p’ a0na/gkhj te kai\ oi1strou e0lau/netai o3j e0kei/|nw| me\n h9dona\j a0ei\ didou\j a1gei), as he sees (o9rw~nti), hears (a0kou/onti), touches (a9ptome/nw|), experiences his loved one through all the senses (kai\ pa=san ai1sqhsin ai0sqanome/nw| tou= e0rwme/nou), so that pleasure makes him press his services on him (w#ste meq’ h9donh=j a0raro/twj au0tw|~ u9phretei=n); but as for his loved one (tw~| de\ dh\ e0rwme/nw|), what kind of solace (poi=on paramu/qion) or what pleasures will he give him (h2 ti/naj h9dona\j didou/j), and so prevent him when he is with him over an equal period of time from experiencing extreme disgust (poih/sei to\n i1son xro/non suno/nta mh\ ou0xi\ e0p’ e1sxaton e0lqei=n a0hdi/aj), as he sees a face which is old (o9rw~nti me\n o1yin presbute/ran) and past its prime (kai\ ou0k e0n w#ra|), and with everything else that follows on that (e9pome/nwn de\ tw~n a1llwn tau/th|), which it is no pleasure even to hear talked about (a4 kai\ lo/gw| e0sti\n a0kou/ein ou0k e0piterpe/j), let alone to be continually compelled as well to deal with them in practice (mh\ o3ti dh\ e1rgw| a0na/gkhj a0ei\ proskeime/nhj metaxeiri/zesqai); when he is guarded suspiciously all the time (fulaka/j te dh\ kaxupoto/pouj fulattome/nw| dia\ panto\j) and in all his relationships (kai\ pro\j a3pantaj); and when he hears himself praised to excess and at the wrong times (a0kai/rouj te e0pai/nouj kai\ u9perba/llontaj a0kou/onti), and reproached in just the same way (w(j d’ au3twj yo/gouj), which is intolerable when the lover is sober (nh/fontoj me\n ou0k a0nektou/j), but shaming as well as intolerable when he is drunk (ei0j de me/qhn i0o/ntoj pro\j tw~| mh\ a0nektw~| e0paisxei=j) and speaking with an unrestrained and barefaced licence (parrhsi/a| katakorei= kai\ a0nape/ptame/nh| xrwme/nou;)?

            ‘While he is in love he is pernicious and unpleasant (Kai\ e0rw~n me\n blabero/j te kai\ a0hdh/j), when he ceases to be in love (lh/caj de\ tou= e1rwtoj), he is untrustworthy for the future (ei0j to\n e1peita xro/non a1pistoj), for which he promised many things, with many oaths and entreaties (ei0j o4n polla\ kai\ meta\ pollw~n o3rkwn te kai\ deh/sewn u9pisxnou/menoj), and so barely held the other one to bear his company then, painful as it was (mo/gij katei=xe th/n ge e0n tw~| to/te sunousi/an e0pi/ponon ou]san fe/rein), through hope of goods to come (di’ e0lpi/da a0gaqw~n). Now, when he should be paying what he owes (to/te dh\ de/on e0kti/nein), he changes in himself and adopts a different ruler and master (metabalw_n a1llon a1rxonta e0n au9tw~| kai\ prosta/thn), sense (nou=n) and sanity (kai\ swfrosu/nhn) in place of love (a0nt’ e1rwtoj) and madness (kai\ mani/aj), and has become a different person (a1lloj gegonw~j) without his beloved’s realising it (le/lhqen ta\ paidika/). His beloved demands return from the lover for favours done in the past (kai\ o9 me\n au0to\n xa/rin a0paitei= tw~n to/te), reminding him of what was said and done then (u9pomimnh/|skwn ta\ praxqe/nta kai\ lexqe/nta), thinking that he is talking to the same man (w(j tw~| au0tw~| dialego/menoj); while the other through shame cannot bring himself to say that he has become a different person (o9 de\ u9p’ ai0sxu/nhj ou1te ei0pei=n tolma=| o3ti a1lloj ge/gonen), nor is he able to make good the oaths and promises of his previous mindless regime (ou1q’ o3pwj ta\ th=j prote/raj a0noh/tou a0rxh=j o9rkwmo/sia/ te kai\ u9posxe/seij e0mpedw&sh| e1xei), having now regained his mind (nou=n h1dh e0sxhkw&j) and come to his senses (kai\ seswfronhkw&j); if he did the same things as his previous self did, he would become like that self again, the same person (i3na mh\ pra/ttwn tau0ta\ tw~| pro/sqen o3moio/j te e0kei/nw| kai\ o9 au0to\j pa/lin ge/nhtai). So as a result of this he becomes a fugitive (fuga\j dh\ gi/gnetai e0k tou/twn), and compelled to default (kai\ a0posterhkw_j di’ a0na/gkhj), this former lover changes direction and launches himself to flight with the flip of the sherd on to its other side (o9 pri\n e0rasth/j, o0stra/kou metapeso/ntoj, i3etai fugh=| metabalw~n); and the other is compelled to run after him (o9 de\ a0nagka/zetai diw&kein), angrily invoking the gods (a0ganaktw~n kai\ e0piqea/zwn), totally unaware from the beginning (h0gnohkw_j to\ a3pan e0c a0rxh=j) that in fact he never ought to have granted favours to a man who is in love and therefore necessarily mindless (o3ti ou0k a1ra e1dei pote\ e0rw~nti kai\ u9p’ a0na/gkhj a0noh/tw| xari/zeaqai), but much rather to a man who is not in love (a0lla\ polu\ ma=llon mh\ e0rw~nti) and is in possession of his mind (kai\ nou=n e1xonti); and that otherwise (ei0 de\ mh/) he is necessarily surrendering himself to someone untrustworthy (a0nagkai=on ei1h e0ndou=nai au9to\n a0pi/stw|), peevish (dusko/lw|), jealous (fqonerw~|), disagreeable (a0hdei=), harmful to his property (blaberw~| me\n pro\j ou0si/an), harmful to his physical condition (blaberw~| de\ pro\j th\n tou= sw&matoj e3cin), but by far most harmful to the education of his soul (polu\ de\ blberwta/tw| pro\j th\n th=j yuxh=j pai/deusin), than which in truth there neither is nor ever will be anything more valuable in the eyes either of men or of gods (h[j ou1te a0nqrw&poij ou1te qeoi=j th=| a0lhqei/a| tmiw&teron ou1te e1stin ou1te pote\ e1stai). So these, my boy, are the things you must bear in mind (tau=ta/ te ou]n xrh/, w} pai=, sunnoei=n), and you must understand that the attentions of a lover do not come with goodwill (kai\ ei0de/nai th\n e0rastou= fili/an o3ti ou0 met’ eu0noi/aj gi/gnetai); no, like food (a0lla\ siti/ou tro/pon), for the purpose of filling up (xa/rin plhsmonh=j) – as wolves love lambs (w(j lu/koi a1rnaj a0gapw~sin), so is lover’s affection of a boy (w4j pai=da filou=sin e0rastai/).’

There, Phaedrus, it’s as I said it would be (Tou=t’ e0kei=no, w} Fai=dre). You’ll hear nothing more than that from me (ou0ke/t’ a2n to\ pe/ra a0kou/saij e0mou= le/gontoj); please let my speech end here (a0ll’ h1dh soi te/loj e0xe/tw o9 lo/goj).