Euthyphro 3

Socrates: Then the best thing for me, my admirable Euthyphro, is (A]r’ ou]n moi, w} qauma/sie Eu0qu/fron kra/tisto/n e0sti) to become your pupil (maqhth=| sw~| gene/sqai) and, before the suit with Meletus comes on (kai\ pro\ th=j grafh=j th=j pro\j Me/lhton), to challenge him (au0ta\ tau=ta prokalei=sqai au0to\n) and say that I always thought it very important before to know about divine matters (le/gonta o3ti e1gwge kai\ e0n tw~| e1mprosqen xro/nw| ta\ qei=a peri\ pollou= e0poiou/mhn ei0de/nai) and that now (kai\ nu=n), since he says I am doing wrong by acting carelessly and making innovations in matters of religion (e0peidh/ me e0kei=noj au0tosxedia/zonta/ fhsi kai\ kainotomou=nta peri\ tw~n qei/wn e0camarta/nein), I have become your pupil (maqhth\j dh\ ge/gona so/j). And “Meletus,” I should say, “if you acknowledge that Euthyphro is wise in such matters (kai\ ei0 me/n, w} Me/lhte, fai/hn a1n, Eu0qu/frona o9mologei=j sofo\n ei]nai ta\ toiau=ta), then believe that I also hold correct opinions (kai\ o0rqw~j nomi/zein  e0me\ h9gou=), and do not bring me to trial (kai\ mh\ dika/zou); and if you do not acknowledge that (ei0 de\ mh/), then bring a suit against him, my teacher (e0kei/nw| tw~| didaska/lw| la/xe di/khn pro/teron h2 e0moi/), and charge him with corrupting the old (w(j tou\j presbute/rouj diafqei/ronti), namely, his father and me (e0me/ te kai\ to\n au9tou= pate/ra), which he does by teaching me and by correcting and punishing his father (e0me/ te dida/skonti, e0kei=non de\ nouqetou=nti/ te kai\ kola/zonti).” And if he does not do as I ask (kai\ a2n mh/ moi pei/qhtai) and does not release me from the indictment (mhd’ a0fi/h th=j di/khj) or bring it against you in my stead (h2 a0nt’ e0mou= gra/fhtai se/), I could say in the courts the same things I said in my challenge to him, could I not (au0ta\ tau=ta le/gein e0n tw~| dikasthri/w|, a4 proukalou/mhn au0to/n)?

Euthyphro: By Zeus, Socrates (Nai\ ma\ Di/a, w} Sw&kratej), if he should undertake to indict me (ei0 a1ra me e0pixeirh/seie gra/fesqai), I fancy I should find his weak spot (eu3roim’ a1n, w(j oi]mai, o3ph| saqro/j e0stin), and it would be much more a question about him in the court (kai\ polu\ a2n h(mi=n pro/teron peri\ e0kei/nou lo/goj e0ge/neto e0n tw|~ dikasthri/w|) than about me (h2 peri\ e0mou=).

Socrates: And I (Kai\ e0gw& toi), my dear friend (w} fi/le e9tai=re), perceiving this (tau=ta gignw&skwn), wish to become your pupil (maqhth\j e0piqumw~ gene/sqai so/j); for I know (ei0dw&j) that neither this fellow Meletus, nor anyone else, seems to notice you at all (o3ti kai\ a1lloj pou/ tij kai\ o9 Me/lhtoj ou3toj se\ me\n ou0de\ dokei= o9ra=n), but he has seen through me so sharply and so easily (e0me\ de\ ou3twj o0ce/wj kai\ r9a|di/wj katei=den) that he has indicted me for impiety (w#ste a0sebei/aj e0gra/yato). Now in the name of Zeus (nu=n ou]n pro\j Dio/j), tell me (le/ge moi) what you just now (o9 nn=n dh/) asserted that you knew so well (safw~j ei0de/nai diisxuri/zou). What do you say is the nature of piety (poi=o/n ti to\ eu0sebe\j fh=|j ei]nai) and impiety (kai\ to\ a0sebe/j), both in relation to murder (kai\ peri\ fo/nou) and to other things (kai\ peri\ tw~n a1llwn;). Is not holiness always the same with itself in every action (h2 ou0 tau0to/n e0stin e0n pa/sh| pra/cei to\ o3sion au0to\ au9tw~|), and, on the other hand, is not unholiness the opposite of all holiness (kai\ to\ a0no/sion au] tou= me\n o9si/ou panto\j e0nanti/on), always the same with itself (au0to\ de\ au9tw~| o3moion) and whatever it is to be unholy possessing some one characteristic quality (kai\ e1xon mi/an tina i0de/an pa=n, o3 ti/ per a2n me/llh| a0no/sion ei]nai;)?

Euthyphro: Certainly (Pa/ntwj dh/pou), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Tell me then (Le/ge dh/), what do you say holiness is (ti/ fh\|j ei]nai to\ o3sion), and what unholiness (kai\ to\ a0no/sion;).

Euthyphro: Well then, I say (Le/gw toi/nun) that holiness is (o3ti to\ me\n o3sio/n e0stin) doing what I am doing now (o3per e0gw_ nu=n poiw~), prosecuting the wrongdoer who commits murder or steals from the temples or does any such thing (tw~| a0dikou=nti h2 peri\ fo/nouj h2 peri\ i9erw~n klopa\j h1 ti a1llo tw~n toiou/twn e0camarta/nonti e0pecie/nai), whether he be your father (e0a/n te path\r w@n tugxa/nh|) or your mother (e0a/n te mh/thr) or anyone else (e0a/n te a1lloj o3stij ou]n), and not prosecuting him (to\ de\ mh\ e0pecie/nai) is unholy (a0no/sion). And, Socrates (e0pei/, w} Sw&kratej), see what a sure proof I offer you (qea/sai w(j me/ga soi e0rw~ tekmh/rion), – a proof I have already given to others, – that this is established and right (tou= no/mou o3ti ou3twj e1xei, o4 kai\ a1lloij h1dh ei=pon o3ti tau=ta o0rqw~j a2n ei1h ou3tw gigno/mena) and that we ought not to let him who acts impiously go unpunished (mh\ e0pitre/pein tw~| a0sebou=nti), no matter who he may be (mhd’ a2n o9stisou=n tugxa/nh| w!n). Men believe that Zeus is (au0toi\ ga\r oi9 a1nqrwpoi tugxa/nousi nomi/zontej to\n Di/a) the best and most just of the gods (tw~n qew~n a1riston kai\ dikaio/taton), and they acknowledge that he put his father in bonds (kai\ tou/ton o9mologou/si to\n au9tou= pate/ra dh=sai) because he wickedly devoured his children (o3ti tou\j u9iei=j kate/pinen ou0k e0n di/kh|), and he in turn had mutilated his father (ka0keino/n ge au] to\n au9tou= pate/ra e0ktemei=n) for similar reasons (di’ e3tera toiau=ta); but they are incensed against me (e0moi\ de\ xalepai/nousin) because I proceed against my father (o3ti tw~| patri\ e/pece/rxomai) when he has done wrong (a0dikou=nti), and so they are inconsistent in what they say about the gods (kai\ ou3twj au0toi\ au9toi=j ta\ e0nanti/a le/gousi peri/ te tw~n qew~n) and about me (kai\ peri\ e0mou=).

Socrates: Is not this, Euthyphro, the reason why I am prosecuted (A]ra/ ge, w} Eu0qu/fron, tou=t’ e1stin ou[ e3neka th\n grafh\n feu/gw), because when people tell such stories about the gods (o3ti ta\ toiau=ta e0peida/n tij peri\ tw~n qew~n le/gh|) I find it hard to accept them (dusxerw~j pwj a0pode/xomai)? And therefore, probably, people will say I am wrong (di) a4 dh/, w(j e1oike, fh/sei ti/j me e0camarta/nein). Now if you, who know so much about such things, accept these tales (nu=n ou]n ei0 kai\ soi\ tau=ta cundokei= tw~| eu] ei0do/ti peri\ tw~n toiou/twn), I suppose I too must give way (a0na/gkh dh/, w(j e1oike, kai\ h9mi=n cugxwrei=n). For what am I to say (ti/ ga\r kai\ fh/somen), who confess frankly that I know nothing about them (oi3 ge au0toi\ o9mologou=men peri\ au0tw~n mhde\n ei0de/nai)? But tell me (a0lla/ moi ei0pe/), in the name of Zeus, the god of friendship (pro\j Fili/ou), do you really believe these things happened (su\ w(j a0lhqw~j h9gei= tau=ta ou3twj gegone/nai;)?

Euthyphro: Yes, and still more wonderful things than these (Kai\ e1ti ge tou/twn qaumasiw&tera), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej), which most people do not know (a4 oi9 polloi\ ou0k i1sasin).

Socrates: And so you believe that there was really war between the gods (Kai\ po/lemon a1ra h9gei= su\ ei]nai tw~| o1nti e0n toi=j qeoi=j pro\j a0llh/louj), and fearful enmities (kai\ e1xqraj te deina/j) and battles (kai\ ma/xaj) and other things of the sort (kai\ a1lla toiau=ta polla/), such as are told of by the poets (oi[a le/getai u9po\ tw~n poihtw~n) and represented in varied designs by the great artists in our sacred places (kai\ u9po\ tw~n a0gaqw~n grafe/wn ta/ te a1lla i9era\ h9mi=n katapepoi/kiltai) and especially on the robe which is carried up to the Acropolis at the great Panathenaia? for this is covered with such representations (kai\ dh\ kai\ toi=j mega/loij Panaqhnai/oij o9 pe/ploj mesto\j tw~n toiou/twn poikilma/twn a0na/getai ei0j th\n a0kro/polin;). Shall we agree that these things are true, Euthyphro (tau=ta a0lhqh= fw~men ei]nai, w} Eu0qu/fron;)?

Euthyphro: Not only those things (Mh\ mo/non ge), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej); but, as I said just now (a0ll’ o3per a1rti ei]pon), I will, if you like, tell you many other things about the gods (kai\ a1lla soi e0gw_ polla/, e0a/nper bou/lh|, peri\ tw~n qei/wn dihgh/somai), which I am sure will amaze you when you hear them (a4 su\ a0kou/wn eu] oi]d’ o3ti e0kplagh/sei).

Socrates: I dare say (Ou0k a2n qauma/zoimi). But you can tell me those tings at your leisure some other time (a0lla\ tau=ta me/n moi ei0j au]=qij e0pi\ sxolh=j dihgh/sei). At present (nuni\ de/) try to tell more clearly what I asked you just now (o3per a1rti se h0ro/mhn, peirw~ safe/steron ei0pei=n). For, my friend, you did not give me sufficient information before (ou0 ga/r me, w} e9tai=re, to\ pro/teron i9kanw~j e0di/dacaj), when I asked (e0rwth/santa) what holiness was (to\ o3sion, o3 ti pot’ ei1h), but you told me (a0lla/ moi ei]pej) that this was holy (o3ti tou=to tugxa/nei o3sion o1n) which you are now doing (o4 su\ nu=n poiei=j), prosecuting your father for murder (fo/nou e0peciw_n tw~| patri/).

Euthyphro: Well, what I said was true (Kai\ a0lhqh= ge e1legon), Socrates (w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Perhaps (I!!swj). But (a0lla\ ga/r), Euthyphro (w} Eu0qu/fron), you say that many other things are holy, do you not (kai\ a1lla polla\ fh|\j ei]nai o3sia)?

Euthyphro: Why, so they are (Kai\ ga\r e1stin).

Socrates: Now call to mind (Me/mnhsai ou]n) that this is not what I asked you (o3ti ou0 tou=to/ soi diekeleuo/mhn), to tell me one or two of the many holy acts (e3n ti h2 du/o me dida/cai tw~n pollw~n o9si/wn), but to tell the essential aspect (a0ll’ e0kei=no au0to\ to\ ei]doj), by which all holy acts are holy (w{| pa/nta ta\ o3sia o3sia/ e0stin;); for you said that all unholy acts were unholy and all holy acts holy by one aspect (e1fhsqa ga/r pou mia| i0de/a| ta/ te a0no/sia a0no/sia ei]nai kai\ ta\ o3sia o3sia). Or don’t you remember (h2 ou0 mnhmoneu/eij;)?

Euthyphro: I remember (E!gwge).

Socrates: Tell me then what this aspect is (Tau/thn toi/nun me au0th\n di/dacon th\n i0de/an, ti/j pote/ e0stin), that I may keep my eye fixed upon it (i3na ei0j e0kei/nhn a0poble/pwn) and employ it as a model (kai\ xrw~menoj au0th=| paradei/gmati) and, if anything you or anyone else does agrees with it, may say that the act is holy, and if not, that it is unholy (o4 me\n a2n toiou=ton h], w{n a2n h2 su\ h2 a1lloj tij pra/tth|, fw~ o3sion ei]nai, o4 d’ a2n mh\ toiou=ton, mh\ fw~).

Euthyphro: If you wish me to explain in that way (A)ll’ ei0 ou3tw bou/lei, w} Sw&kraej), I will do so (kai\ ou3tw soi fra/sw).

Socrates: I do wish it (A)lla\ mh\n bou/lomai/ ge).

Euthyphro: Well then, what is dear to the gods is holy (E!sti toi/nun to\ me\n toi=j qeoi=j prosfile\j o3sion), and what is not dear to them is unholy (to\ de\ mh\ prosfile\j a0no/sion).

Socrates: Excellent (Pagka/lwj), Euthyphro (w} Eu0qu/fron); now you have answered as I asked you to answer (kai\ w(j e0gw_ e0zh/toun a0pokri/nasqai/ se, ou3tw nu=n a0pekri/nw). However, whether it is true (ei0 me/ntoi a0lhqe/j), I am not yet sure (tou=to ou1pw oi]da); but you will, of course, show (a0lla\ su\ dh=lon o3ti e0pekdida/ceij) what you say is true (w(j e1stin a0lhqh= a4 le/geij).

Euthyphro: Certainly (Pa/nu me\n ou]n).