Tuesday, September 10, 2019

1 C. J. Rowe’s arguments for a late dating of the Phaedrus – the Phaedrus and the Timaeus


In the ‘Introduction’ to his edition and translation of the Phaedrus Rowe writes: ‘The Phaedrus is certainly later than the Republic and other middle dialogues like the Phaedo and the Symposium; certainly later than the Timaeus; possibly or probably later than the Parmenides, the Theaetetus, the Sophist and the Statesman; and probably earlier than the Philebus. Some of the evidence for these suggestions will be found implied in various parts of the commentary; their net result would be to place the Phaedrus rather later than is commonly assumed, and relatively near the end of Plato’s life. But for a direct treatment of these matters, see my forthcoming article ‘The Structure and argument of Plato’s Phaedrus’.’

In ‘The argument and structure of Plato’s Phaedrus’ (Proceedings of the Cambridge Philological Society, 1986, pp. 106-125) he says: ‘Finally, some brief remarks about dating. There is at present no clear consensus on the question: some regard the Phaedrus as belonging with the middle dialogues; others group it with the late dialogues like the Theaetetus or the Politicus [i.e. Statesman]. I make the following observations. 1. Those who hold the first view usually at least implicitly rely on the close resemblance between some of the main ideas contained in Socrates’ speech and those of the Republic, the Symposium, and the Phaedo: including, most notably, the idea of separated Forms and that of learning as recollection. What has not been sufficiently recognised is that these ideas appear in the Phaedrus exclusively in the framework of a muthos. If no muthos is to be taken as literally true (see p. 116 above), the result will be to throw immediate doubt on their status. In general, the Phaedrus seems to expound middle-period ideas only to recommend them for scrutiny. If so, it has more in common with the critical musings of the Parmenides than with the optimistic constructions of the middle dialogues themselves. 2. Socrates argues that skilfully constructed logoi will be based on the procedures of collection and division (264e-266c, 277b-c). If, as I suggest, Plato has in mind his own works as models, this will connect the Phaedrus especially with the Sophist and the Politicus; and I believe that it contains an actual parody of the sort of elaborate definition which results from the division in both these dialogues (I refer to Socrates’ “dithyrambic” definition of love at 238b-c, in his first speech). 3. The Phaedrus rejects the conception of gods as a combination of soul and body (246c-d): such a conception of them is present in the Timaeus (38e, 41a-b), but – pace Cornford – absent from Laws 10. 4. Other clear connections with Laws 10, as has long been noticed, are to be found in the arguments for immortality (245c-246a). 5. But a comparison of the ways in which Plato introduces the figure called Theuth in the Phaedrus (274c-275b) and in the Philebus (18b-d) convinces me that the Philebus passage is later. I conclude that Plato wrote the Phaedrus at a time relatively close to, but still some distance from, the end of his life.’ (pp. 120-121)

In this post I shall discuss Rowe’s point 3. I shall begin with his observation that ‘the Phaedrus rejects the conception of gods as a combination of soul and body (264c-d)’. In the given passage Socrates explains ‘how it is (pȇi dȇ oun) that some living creatures are called mortal and some immortal (thnȇton te kai athanaton zȏion eklȇthȇ)’: ’All soul (psuchȇ pasa) has the care of all that is soulless (pantos epimeleitai tou apsuchou), and ranges about the whole universe (panta de ouranon peripolei), coming now to be in one form, now in another (allot’ en allois eidesi gignomenȇ). Now when it is perfectly winged (telea men oun ousa kai empterȏmenȇ), it travels above the earth (meteȏroporei te) and governs the whole cosmos (kai panta ton kosmon dioikei); but the one that has lost its wings (hȇ de pterorruȇsasa) is swept along (pheretai) until it lays hold of something solid (heȏs an stereou tinos antilabȇtai), where it settles down (hou katoikistheisa), taking on an earthy body (sȏma gȇïnon labousa), which seems to move itself because of the power of the soul  (auto hauto dokoun kinein dia tȇn ekeinȇs dunamin), and the whole is called a living creature (zȏion to sumpan eklȇthȇ), soul and body fixed together (psuchȇ kai sȏma pagen), and acquires the name “mortal” (thnȇton eschen epȏnumian); immortal it is not, on the basis of any argument which has been reasoned through (athanaton de oud’ ex henos logou lelogismenou), but because we have not seen or adequately conceived a god we imagine (alla plattomen oute idontes oute hikanȏs noȇsantes theon) a kind of immortal living creature (athanaton ti zȏion) which has both a soul and body (echon men psuchȇn, echon de sȏma), combined for all time (ton aei de chronon tauta sumpephukota).’ (246b5-d2, tr. Rowe)

Can these words refer to the Timaeus passages to which Rowe refers?

In Timaeus 38e Plato says: ‘Now, when each of the stars which were necessary to the creation of time had come to its proper orbit (epeidȇ dȇ oun eis tȇn heautȏi prepousan hekaston aphiketo phoran tȏn hosa edei sunapergazesthai chronon), and they had become living creatures having bodies fastened by ensouled chains (desmois empsuchois sȏmata dethenta zȏia egennȇthȇ), and learnt their appointed task (to te prostachthen emathen), moving in the motion of the diverse (kata de tȇn thaterou phoran), which is diagonal (plagian ousan, 38e3-39a1) and passes …‘

Plato argues – presents logon lelogismenon ‘argument reasoned through’ – that each star (planet) must ‘learn its appointed task’, which is demanding and complicated, as he begins to explain in what immediately follows: ‘[and passes] through and is governed by the motion of the same (dia tȇs t’autou phoras iousan te kai kratoumenȇn), one in a larger and another in a lesser orbit (to men meizona autȏn, to d’ elatton kuklon ion), – those which had the lesser orbit revolving faster (thatton men ta ton elattȏ), and those which had the larger more slowly … (ta de ton meizȏ braduteron periȇiein … 39a1-3).’

How could Plato say in Phaedrus 246c6-7, with reference to ‘the stars that have become living creatures having bodies fastened by ensouled chains’ in Timaeus 38e, that these are presented as immortal ‘on the basis of no argument which has been reasoned through’? These two passages nevertheless appear to be related. Presumably, when Plato wrote the Phaedrus there didn’t exist any ‘reasoned argument’ for a divine being composed of body and soul. With Phaedrus 246c6-7 in mind, Plato in the Timaeus explains how and why the dȇmiourgos created the stars, divine beings composed of body and soul.

But perhaps I am too hasty, rushing to see the given passages within the framework of my dating of the Phaedrus. So let us see Rowe’s second reference to the Timaeus: ‘Now, when all of them (epei d’oun pantes), both those who visibly appear in their revolutions (hosoi te peripolousin phanerȏs) as well as those other gods who are of a more retiring nature (kai hosoi phainontai kath’ hoson an ethelȏsin theoi ‘and those gods who appear whenever they wish’), had come into being (genesin eschon), the creator of the universe addressed them in these words (legei pros autous ho tode to pan gennȇsas tade): “Gods, children of gods (Theoi theȏn, ‘the text is uncertain’ remark the Sphere Books editors (1970) of Jowett’s translation), who are my works, and of whom I am the artificer and father (hȏn egȏ dȇmiourgos patȇr te ergȏn), my creations (di’ emou genomena) are indissoluble (aluta), if so I will (emou ge mȇ ethelontos). All that is bound may be undone (to men oun dȇ dethen pan luton), but only an evil being would wish to undo that which is harmonious and happy (to ge mȇn kalȏs harmosthen kai echon eu luein ethelein kakou). Wherefore (di ha kai), since ye are but creatures (epeiper gegenȇsthe), ye are not altogether immortal and indissoluble (athanatoi men ouk este oud’ alutoi to pamapan), but ye shall certainly not be dissolved (outi men dȇ luthȇsesthe ge), nor be liable to the fate of death (oude teuxesthe thanatou moiras), having in my will a greater and mightier bond (tȇs emȇs boulȇseȏs meizonos eti desmou kai kuriȏterou lachontes) than those (ekeinȏn) with which ye were bound at the time of your birth (hois hot’ egignesthe sunedeisthe).” (Timaeus 41a-b, tr. B. Jowett)

If the Phaedrus is later than the Timaeus, it is surprising to see the former – with its claim that there is no argument for immortality of gods composed of soul and body – as referring to or as having any relevance in relation to Timaeus 41a-b. For in the Timaeus passage the demiurge does not say that the gods he created are immortal. He says explicitly that they are ‘not altogether immortal’ (athanatoi ou to pampan, 41b2-3), for they are composed (of soul and body), and ‘all that is composed can be dissolved’ (to men oun dȇ dethen pan luton, 40a8-b1), although they shall not die, for he created them well and therefore does not wish them to be dissolved and die.

But let us see the text that immediately follows, for in it the demiurge explains why he created other gods composed of soul and body – i.e. other than those that we can see as the stars, the moon, the sun, and the planets, which it was necessary to create to make time (‘Time then, and the heaven came into being …’ [Chronos d’ oun met’ ouranou gegonen …, 38b6 ff.])

The demiurge continues: ‘And now listen to my instructions (nun oun ho legȏ pros humas endeiknumenos, mathete): – Three tribes of mortal beings remain to be created (thnȇta eti genȇ loipa tria agennȇta) – without them the universe will be incomplete (toutȏn de mȇ genomenȏn ouranos atelȇs estai), for it will not contain every kind of animal which it ought to contain (ta gar hapant’ en hautȏi genȇ zȏiȏn ouch hexei, dei de), if it is to be perfect (ei mellei teleos hikanȏs einai). On the other hand, if they were created by me (di’ emou de tauta genomena) and received life in my hands (kai biou metaschonta), they would be on an equality with the gods (theois isazoit’ an). In order then that that they may be mortal (hina oun thnȇta te ȇi), and that this universe may be truly universal (to te pan tode ontȏs hapan ȇi), do ye, according to your natures, betake yourselves to the formation of animals (trepesthe kata phusin humeis epi tȇn tȏn zȏiȏn dȇmiourgian), imitating the power which was shown by me in creating you (mimoumenoi tȇn emȇn dunamin peri tȇn humeteran genesin). The part of them worthy of the name immortal (kai kath’ hoson men autois athanatois homȏnumon einai prosȇkei), which is called divine (theion legomenon) and is the guiding principle of those (hȇgemonoun te en autois tȏn) who are willing to follow justice and you (aei dikȇi kai humin ethelontȏn hepesthai) – of that divine part I will myself sow the seed (speiras), and having made a beginning (kai huparxamenos), I will hand the work over to you (egȏ paradȏsȏ). And do ye then interweave the mortal with the immortal (to de loipon humeis, athanatȏi thnȇton prosuphainontes), and make and beget living creatures (apergazesthe zȏia kai gennate), and give them food (trophȇn te didontes), and make them to grow (auxanete), and receive them again in death (kai phthinonta palin dechesthe).’ (41b6-d3, tr. B. Jowett)

If we are to view the Phaedrus as later than the Timaeus, as Rowe suggests, then Plato must have come to the view that the Timaeus passage presented no ‘reasoned argument’ (logos lelogismenos) ‘on the basis of which a god could be seen as a kind of immortal living creature which has both a soul and body’. Isn’t it more likely that when Plato wrote Timaeus 41b6-d3 he reflected on the Phaedrus 246c6-d2 passage? And that’s why he argued, as he did, that the demiurge created gods combined of body and soul out of necessity and for a purpose?

The Timaeus passage, which immediately precedes 41a-b referred to by Rowe, adds weight to my last two questions: ‘To know or tell the origin of the other divinities (Peri de tȏn allȏn daimonȏn eipein kai gnȏnai tȇn genesin) is beyond us (meizon ȇ kath’ hȇmas), and we must accept the traditions of the men of old time (peisteon de tois eirȇkosi emprosthen) who affirm themselves to be the offsprings of the gods (ekgonois men theȏn ousin) – that is what they say (hȏs ephasan) – and they must surely have known their own ancestors (saphȏs de pou tous ge hautȏn progonous eidosin). How can we doubt the word of the children of the gods (adunaton oun theȏn paisin apistein)? Although they give no probable or certain proofs (kaiper aneu te eikotȏn kai anankaiȏn apodeixeȏn legousin, 40e1-2), still, as they declare that they are speaking of what took place in their own family (all’ hȏs oikeia phaskontȏn apangellein), we must conform to custom and believe them (hepomenous tȏi nomȏi pisteuteon). In this manner (houtȏs), then (oun), according to them (kat’ ekeinous), the genealogy of these gods is to be received (hȇmin hȇ genesis peri toutȏn tȏn theȏn echetȏ) and set forth (kai legesthȏ). Oceanus and Thetys were the children of Earth and Heaven (Gȇs te kai Ouranou paides Ōkeanos te kai Thetus egenesthȇn), and from these sprang Phorkys (toutȏn de Phorkus) and Cronos (Kronos te) and Rhea (kai Rhea), and all that generation (kai hosoi meta toutȏn); and from Cronos (ek de Kronou) and Rhea (kai Rheas) sprang Zeus (Zeus) and Hera (Hȇra te), and all those who are said to be their brethren (kai pantes hosous ismen adelphous legomenous autȏn), and others who were the children of these (eti te toutȏn allous ekgonous).’ (Timaeus 40d6-41a3, tr. B. Jowett)

Doesn’t Plato’s ‘although they give no probable or certain proofs (kaiper aneu te eikotȏn kai anankaiȏn apodeixeȏn legousin) in Timaeus 40e1-2 say the same as ‘on the basis of no single reasoned argument (oud’ ex henos logou lelogismenou) in Phaedrus 246c6-7? But there is one difference; in the Phaedrus this verdict concerns all gods composed of soul and body, whereas in the Timaeus it concerns only the gods of the Greek mythology. Doesn’t it then mean that Plato in the Timaeus indicated how he would want us to read the Phaedrus passage, as I would suggest on my dating of the latter, or does it mean that in the Phaedrus Plato generalised the Timaeus verdict so as to apply it to all gods composed of soul and body, if it is later than the Timaeus as Rowe suggests? Laws X, to which Rowe refers in the second part of point 3 of his arguments may show some light on this problem. I shall discuss Laws X, in so far as they are relevant to Rowe’s point 3, in the next post devoted to Rowe’s arguments for the late dating of the Phaedrus.

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