Meno 7

At 80cd, quoted towards the end of Meno 3, Socrates accepted the simile of the torpedo-fish only if the torpedo-fish torpedoed itself when torpedoing those that touched it.

But let me begin with Meno. At 80ab Meno says: I consider that both in your appearance and in other respects you are extremely like the flat torpedo sea-fish (kai\ dokei=j moi o9moio/tatoj ei]nai to/ te ei]doj ka\ ta]lla tau/th| th=| platei/a| na/rkh| th=| qalatti/a|); for it benumbs anyone who approaches and touches it (kai\ ga\r au3th to\n a0ei\ plhsia/zonta kai\ a9pto/menon narka=n poiei=), and something of the sort is what I find you have done to me now (kai\ su\ dokei=j moi nu=n e0me\ toiouto/n ti pepoihke/nai). For in truth I feel my soul and my tongue quite benumbed (a0lhqw~j ga\r e1gwge kai\ th\n yuxh\n kai\ to\ sto/ma narkw~), and I am at a loss what answer to give you (kai\ ou0k e1xw o3 ti a0pokri/nwmai/ soi).

At 80cd Socrates says: As for me (e0gw_ de/), if the torpedo is torpid itself, causing others to be torpid (ei0 me\n h9 na/rkh au0th\ narkw~sa ou3tw kai\ tou\j a1llouj poiei= narka=|n), I am like it (e1oika au0th=|), but not otherwise (ei0 de\ mh\, ou1). For it is not from any sureness in myself that I cause others to doubt (ou0 ga\r eu0porw~n au0to\j tou\j a1llouj poiw~ a0porei=n): it is from being in more doubt than anyone else that I cause doubt in others (a0ll\ panto\j ma=llon au0to\j a0porw~n ou3twj kai\ tou\j a1lloujpoiw~ a0porei=n).

In a long series of questioning, which begins at 82b9 and ends at 84a2, by the method of recollection, Socrates led the boy to his realisation that he did not know the side of the eight-foot square. When the boy acknowledged his ignorance, Socrates asked Meno whether he noticed and appreciated the progress the boy has made in recollection; Meno replied that he did.

But Socrates did not leave it at that, he went back to the torpedo-fish, to which Meno likened him at 80ab.

Socrates: Now, by causing him to doubt (A0porei=n ou]n au0to\n poih/santej) and giving him the torpedo shock like the torpedo-fish (kai\ narka=n w#sper h9 na/rkh), have we done him any harm (mw~n ti e0bla/yamen;)?

Meno: I think not (Ou0k e1moige dokei=).

Socrates: And we have certainly done something beneficial (Prou1rgou ou]n ti pepoih/kamen), it would seem (w(j e1oike), towards finding out the truth of the matter (pro\j to\ e0ceurei=n o3ph| e1xei): for now he will push on in the search gladly (nu=n me\n ga\r kai\ zhth/seien a2n h9de/wj), as lacking knowledge (ou0k ei0dw&j), whereas then (to/te de/) he would have been only too ready (r9a|di/wj a21n) to suppose he was right in saying, before any number of people any number of times (kai\ pro\j pollou\j kai\ polla/kij w!|et’ a2n eu] le/gein), that the double space (peri\ tou= diplasi/ou xwri/ou ) must have a line of double the length of its side (w(j dei= diplasi/an th\n grammh\n e1xein mh/kei).

Meno: It seems so (E1oiken).

Socrates: Now do you imagine (Oi1ei ou]n) he would have attempted to inquire or learn what he thought he knew, when he did not know it, until he had been reduced to the perplexity of realizing that he did not know (pro/teron e0pixeirh=sai zhtei=n h2 manqa/nein tou=to, o4 w|!eto ei0de/nai ou0k ei0dw&j, pri\n ei0j a0pori/an kate/pesen h9ghsa/menoj mh\ ei0de/nai), and had a craving to know (kai\ e0po/qhse to\ ei0de/nai)?

Meno: I think not, Socrates (Ou1 moi dokei=, w} Sw&kratej).

Socrates: Then the torpedo’s shock was of advantage to him (W!nhto a1ra narkh/saj;)?

Meno: I think so (Dokei= moi).

***

Socrates adopts and accepts here the simile of the torpedo’s shock in a different way from the way he accepted it after Meno had conceived and used it against him.

In his discussion with Meno’s boy Socrates knows what he is asking him about, what he is “torpedo shocking” (narka=|n) him about. At Meno 84e-c Socrates appropriated the simile of ‘torpedoing’, narka=|n, as an expression of an important stage of recollection, the stage of questioning, which ends with the recognition of one’s not knowing on the part of those questioned by Socrates.