Tuesday, October 22, 2024

After I returned from the library

After I returned from the library, when I opened the draw, the bus pass, for which I was looking in that draw in vain, was lying there, in the middle of it. And so, I could go to Oxford with LET US DISCUSS PLATO, but I shall use the day more profitably if I stay at home.

Concerning the dating of the Meno prior to the trial and death of Socrates, all important facts are accessible to those who read Plato’s Meno and Xenophon’s Anabasis in translation. The original is nevertheless of crucial importance when it comes to the question whether Anytus left Socrates and Meno as he left the discussion, as W.R.M. Lamb suggests in his LOEB translation, or whether he stays to the end of the discussion, though silent, as I have suggested in ‘Anytus in Plato’s Meno’:

‘Anytus takes part in the discussion from 89e to 95a. In his last entry Anytus says: ‘Socrates, I consider you are too apt to speak ill of people. I, for one, if you will take my advice, would warn you to be careful: in most cities it is probably easier to do people harm than good, and particularly in this one; I think you know that yourself.’

W.R.M. Lamb notes: ‘Anytus goes away.’ This is wrong: Anytus refrains from taking part in the discussion but stays with Meno and Socrates to the end of the dialogue, as we can learn from references to him both by Socrates and by Meno. What misguided W.R.M. Lamb at 99b was his translation of Anytos hode as ‘our friend Anytus’. Lamb translates: ‘Themistocles and the rest of them, to whom our friend Anytus was referring a moment ago.’ Lamb speaks here of Anytus as absent, but Anytos hode ‘this here Anytus’ does not allow it: hoi amphi Themistoklea te kai hous arti Anytos hode elege. Similarly, in the last sentence of the dialogue, spoken by Socrates – ‘It is now time for me to go my way, but do you persuade our friend Anytus [ton xenon tonde Anyton] of that whereof you are now yourself persuaded, so as to put him in a gentler mood’ –  Lamb’s ‘our friend Anytus’ allows Lamb, and the readers of his translation, to think of Anytus as absent, which Socrates’ tonde [accusative of hode] Anyton disallows.’

Liddell and Scott in their Greek-English Lexicon devote a whole article toit it. Because of its importance I am quoting it in full:

‘‘hode [nom. masc.], héde [nom. fem.], tode [nom. neutr.], demonstr. pron., this, formed by adding the enclit. -de to the old demonstr. pron. ho, hé, to, and declined like it through all cases: Ep. dat. pl. toisdessi, toisdessin, as well as toisde, Il. 10. 462, Od. 2. 47, al; and toisdessi 10. 268, 21. 93; toisdessin Democr. 175; toiside Hdt. 1. 32, al.: Aeol. gen.pl. tóndeón Alc. 126: Arg. gen. pl. tóndeónén {= tóndeón + én} Mnemos. 57. 208 (vi. B. C.): nom. pl. neut. tadén ibid., |G4. 506. 1; tadé Sch.Ar.Ach.744: – hode, like houtos,  is opp. ekeinos, to designate what is nearer as opp. to what is more remote; but hode refers more distinctly to what is present, to what can be seen or pointed out, though this distinction is sts. not observed, e.g. xumpas Achaión laos, en de toisd‘ egó S. Ph. 1243 (v.l. tois), cf. Ant. 449, and on the other hand, é tonde phrazeis; - touton, honper eisorais Id. OT.1120: the forms hodi, hédi, etc. [í] are freq. in Com. And Oratt., but are not used in Trag.: the í may be separated from the hode by the adversative de, as ton men…, téndedi Ar. Av.18, cf. Ec. 989.

I. of Place, to point out what is present or before one, Hektoros héde guné this is, or here is, the wife of Hector, Il. 6. 460: very freq. in Trag., akté men héde Lémnou S. Ph. 1, cf.  E. Tr.4, Ion 5, Hel. 1, HF 4, Ba. 1; in Com., egó siópó tóide; Ar. Ran.1134, etc.; and in Prose, hón Theodóros heis hode Pl. Tht.164e; of what belongs to this world, Id. Phdr. 250a, Smp. 211c.

2. with verbs of action, = here, andri, hostis hode krateei who holds sway here, Il. 5. 175; enchos men tode keitai epi chthonos, here it lies, 20.345, cf.21,533, Od.1.185, etc.; héd’ hé korólegei the crow here .., v.l. in Ar. Av.23: freq. In Trag., esp. to indicate the entrance of a person on the stage, kai mén Eteoklés hode chórei here comes .., E. Ph. 443, cf. S. OT 297, 531, 632, OC 32, 549;

3. with a pern. Pron., hod’ egó éluthon here am I come, Od. 16.295; hémeis hoide periphrazómetha let us here .., 1.76; dóra d’ egón hode paraschemen here am I [ready] to provide .., Il.19.140: with a pr. n., hod’ eim’ Orestés Er. Or. 380: with autos, hod‘ autos egó Od. 21.207, 24.321.

4. also with tis and other interrog. words, tis d’ hode Nausikaai hepetai; who is this following her? 6, 276 cf. 1.225; ti kakon tode paschete; what is this evil ye are suffering? 20.351; pros poion an tond’ … eplei; S. Ph.572, cf. 1204 .

5. in Trag. dialogue hode and hod’ anér, = egó, Id. OT534, 815, etc.; gunaikos tésde, for emou, A.Ag.1438; tésde ge zósés eti S.Tr.305; so xun téide cheri with this hand of mine, Id. Ant.43, cf.  OT.811.

6. in Arist., todi designates a particular thing, ‘such and such’, todi dia todi haireitai EN1151a35; tode meta tode GA734a8, cf. b9; Kalliai kamnonti téndi tén noson todi sunénenke Metaph.981a8; tode to en tói hémikukliói A.Po.71a20; héde hé iatriké, opp. auté hé l., Metaph.997b30; tode ti a this, i.e. a fully specified particular, Cat.3b10,al., cf.Gal.6.113,171; tode ti kai ousia Arist. Metaph.1060b1; poreusometha eis ténde tén polin Ep. Jac.4.13.

II. of Time, to indicate the immediate present, héd‘ hémera S. OT438, etc.: more strongly, kat émar … to nun tode Id. Aj.753; toud’ autou lukabantos Od.14.161; but nuktos tésde in the night just passed, S. Aj.21; nukti téide Id. El.644; so tésde tés hodou on this present journey, Id.OT1478, cf. Ant.878 (cj.); also apollumai talas egó etos tod’ édé dekaton now for these ten years, Id. Ph.312; tónde tón askétón athletes of the present day, Pl. R.403e.

2. es tode elliptic c. gen., es tod’ hémeras E.Ph.425; es tode hélikiés Hdt.7.38; pós es tod’ an tolmés ebé; S. OT125.

III. in sentences beginning this is.., the Engl. this is freq. represented by nom. pl.neut.tade; epei ouk eranos tade g’ estin this is not an eranos; Od.1.226; ar’ ouch hubris tod’; is not this insolence? S. OC883; of persons, Apollón tad’ én this was Ap., Id.OT1329 (lyr.); ou gar esth’ Hektór tade E. Andr.168; ouket’ Troia tade Id. Tr.100 (anap.); ou tade Bromios Id.Cyc.63 (lyr.); ouk Iónes tade eisin Th.6.77; tad’ ouchi Peloponnésos, all’ Iónia Inscr.ap.Str.9.1.6.

2. to indicate something immediately to come, tode moi kréénon eeldór (which then follows) Il.1.41,504, cf.455 al.; Athénaión hoide apethanon IG1.2.943.2: hence, in historical writers, opp. what goes before tauta men Lakedaimonioi legousi.., tade de egó graphó Hdt.6.53; tauta men dé su legeisׄ  par’ hémón de apangelle tade X.An.2.1.20, etc.; houtos; opp. ekeinos, S. El.784: rarely applied to different persons in the same sentence, nun hode (Laius) pros tés tuchés olólen, oude toud’ hupo (Oidipous) Id.OT948.

3. as ‘antecedent’ to a defining Relat., hon polis stéseie, toude chré kluein Id.Ant.666, cf. Tr.23, Ph.87, etc. in Hom. In such cases, the de is separate, as hos de ge mérinthoio tuchéi..,ho d‘ oisetai hémipelekka Il.23.858, cf. Od.11. cf. Od.11.148, 149, al. (but hode sts. has its deictic force, and the relat. clause merely explains, as nésou tésd‘ eph‘ hés naiei S. Ph.613, cf. Il.2.236, X. An. 7.3.47, etc.)

IV. Adverbial usage in some cases: 1. ide,

a. of Place, here, on the spot, Il.12.345, Od.6.173, etc.; so tón te hupo gés theón kai tón t. Pl.Lg.958d.

b. of Manner, thus, A. Eu.45; hora de kai t., hoti.. Pl.Phd.79e, cf. R.433e, etc.

2. acc. neut. tode with hikanó, etc. hither, to this spot, Il.14.298, Od.1.409, al.; also deuro tode Il.14.309, Od.17.444,524.

b. therefore, on this account, tode chóeo 23.213: so also acc. pl. neut., toiside in or with these words, toiside ameibetai Hdt.1.120; toiside proechei in these respects, ib. 32.

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